On being That Guy
Jul. 5th, 2011 11:11 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
I had various things to say about the recent commotion about the elevator incident at an atheist conference in Dublin. But it's late so I'll try to be brief.
TL;DR version of things, as far as I can make out: after speaking at a con panel (and mentioning that she disliked being hit on by strangers at cons), Rebecca Watsonhung out at the bar talking with other con-goers until around 4am, where she declared that she was tired and headed for bed. An unnamed guy followed her into the elevator, where he invited her back to his room for 'coffee'. Next day she mentioned this incident (without naming him) and suggested that this was not a good way to behave.
A lot of sadly predictable responses, in the "it can't be wrong if there's even the TINIEST CHANCE that it might get a guy laid" vein. But the one I want to deal with here: "He wasn't a rapist, so it's hyperbole to treat him like one."
...okay, let me tell you about somebody I used to know, a colleague of my father. He was a professor at a prestigious Australian university that attracted a lot of foreign students, and he took a particular interest in Chinese students. He'd get to know prospective postgrad students, and their families. He'd agree to supervise their Masters/PhD projects, help them with their student visas, and rent them rooms in houses he owned. And once they were studying in Australia, sometimes, he'd sleep with them (the female ones, anyway).
So let's think about that. You're a newly-arrived student who's just been offered a huge academic opportunity. You're looking at a guy who is your landlord, your supervisor, and a 'friend' of your parents. If he feels like it, he has the power to wreck your life on a whim. For bonus points, you're in a strange country where you don't have a lot of contacts and don't have a good understanding of your rights.
I believe that in a situation like that, it's nigh-impossible to give meaningful consent. Maybe he really was perfectly willing to take no for an answer... but these women had no way of knowing that. More than one of them said yes, rather than take the risk. This went on for years, until an irate boyfriend found out and punched him out - at which point the whole sordid mess came out and we found out what this guy had been up to.
So, guys (and girls), it's good that you have no intention of harming anybody, but that's not enough: it's also important that THEY know this. Propositioning somebody alone, late at night, in a situation where they don't have a clear exit, is a really bad way to achieve that. So if you're in a position of power - physically, socially, whatever - you may want to find a way to step back from that. It may mean you feel a little less secure, but it decreases the chances of making somebody else feel threatened and uncomfortable. And if that doesn't matter to you, frankly, you don't deserve to get laid.
TL;DR version of things, as far as I can make out: after speaking at a con panel (and mentioning that she disliked being hit on by strangers at cons), Rebecca Watsonhung out at the bar talking with other con-goers until around 4am, where she declared that she was tired and headed for bed. An unnamed guy followed her into the elevator, where he invited her back to his room for 'coffee'. Next day she mentioned this incident (without naming him) and suggested that this was not a good way to behave.
A lot of sadly predictable responses, in the "it can't be wrong if there's even the TINIEST CHANCE that it might get a guy laid" vein. But the one I want to deal with here: "He wasn't a rapist, so it's hyperbole to treat him like one."
...okay, let me tell you about somebody I used to know, a colleague of my father. He was a professor at a prestigious Australian university that attracted a lot of foreign students, and he took a particular interest in Chinese students. He'd get to know prospective postgrad students, and their families. He'd agree to supervise their Masters/PhD projects, help them with their student visas, and rent them rooms in houses he owned. And once they were studying in Australia, sometimes, he'd sleep with them (the female ones, anyway).
So let's think about that. You're a newly-arrived student who's just been offered a huge academic opportunity. You're looking at a guy who is your landlord, your supervisor, and a 'friend' of your parents. If he feels like it, he has the power to wreck your life on a whim. For bonus points, you're in a strange country where you don't have a lot of contacts and don't have a good understanding of your rights.
I believe that in a situation like that, it's nigh-impossible to give meaningful consent. Maybe he really was perfectly willing to take no for an answer... but these women had no way of knowing that. More than one of them said yes, rather than take the risk. This went on for years, until an irate boyfriend found out and punched him out - at which point the whole sordid mess came out and we found out what this guy had been up to.
So, guys (and girls), it's good that you have no intention of harming anybody, but that's not enough: it's also important that THEY know this. Propositioning somebody alone, late at night, in a situation where they don't have a clear exit, is a really bad way to achieve that. So if you're in a position of power - physically, socially, whatever - you may want to find a way to step back from that. It may mean you feel a little less secure, but it decreases the chances of making somebody else feel threatened and uncomfortable. And if that doesn't matter to you, frankly, you don't deserve to get laid.
no subject
Date: 2011-07-09 09:26 am (UTC)For a small sum of money there are people who would entertain such a proposition and save others a great deal of stress and discomfort.